n artifacts... ♪ into a high-tech masterpiece? ♪ whatever your business challenge, dell has the technology and services to help you solve it. at the top of the show we asked you why are you awake? john tower with the answers. >> robert said tfl and was up all night. bill came on and now it really hurts. >> i'm an expert on tfl. what is that again? >> you're going to make me say

this? >> next e-mail? >> bobby writes, you appear to be a good man with no hidden agenda. i'll keep watching you. just wa. just wait. got a little crazy on me. "morning joe" starts right now. great show, everyone. people flip out when they think their guns might be taken away, and some lobbyists will try to whip them into a frenzy with ads like this one. >> why does president obama want to take everybody's guns away? >> everybody's guns are going to be taken away. >> that's right. the federal government is about to take your guns away. >> the federal government's about to take all your guns away. >> whose guns? >> everybody's guns. >> how many guns? >> all your guns. >> call the white house right now because if you don't -- >> here it comes. >> here it comes. paid for by americans against congress.

>> good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it's funny, that ad was fake. we have a real one by the nra which we will show you coming up, which it should be fake. it's wednesday, january 16th. good to have everyone with us. with us on set, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. hello, mike. >> hello. >> you look nice today. >> thank you. >> donny, doesn't he put together well in. >> on the barnicle scale. >> he's adorable. chairman of deutsche incorporated, donny deutsch. >> but -- you know what? it's okay. i put a lot of effort into my has be haberdashery and still no comment. >> now ceo of melanie barnes solutions, melanie barnes, you worked in the white house very high up. huh. interesting. notice anything here, gentlemen? >> yeah, where is he? >> oh, joe's here.

he's coming. he's going to pop up on screen. i was just noticing that melanie happens to be a woman and worked in the white house. >> and worked in the white house. >> good god! >> policy adviser. >> this is something. take note. no, but i should do a blog on cool women like you. so we'll have to catch up. and joe's going to be joining us. actually i see him getting wired up right now, and willie is as well. >> i think there should be a report card on tardyness. >> really? >> mike is always here on time. >> don't even get me going on the kid. >> the kid? >> well, he was out drinking all night. >> he has, like, 18 jobs. >> he's stumbling in. he's coming in from -- where's the club? >> blarney stone. >> was he out again? >> all night long. >> oh, willie was. well, then we'll give him trouble. you know, i will just say that willie might stumble in from a bar. i stumble in straight from the er where my children are. and i make it to work on time. >> what's -- >> oh, they're fine.

but just my point. i'm making a point. does anyone understand it? >> multitasking. >> we multitask, we make it on time. >> silence. >> willie geist will be here soon. and we will love every minute of it whenever he arrives. we have a lot to get to this morning. joe, actually, i want to show this to you. can you hear me, joe? >> i sure can. >> okay. yeah, he can hear me. i'm going to show this to our viewers. we did this yesterday, and joe pointed out this app that i guess you can put on your iphone and shoot people with it for fun. >> yeah. >> and after we showed that on the air, they've made some changes. the age limit was 4. a 4-year-old could have done that. and now at least apple is moving the age limit up so that i guess 17-year-olds can play the game. i mean, the game in itself is a little disturbing. but they at least have retreated

to at least making it not for little children. is that -- >> it's meaningless. >> meaningless. >> if you have an iphone in your hand, you're 10, 12 years of age, the iphone is not going to kick the app back because you ordered it. >> it doesn't have parental guidance on the iphone. >> it's like coke saying don't drink this if you can't burn off the calories. >> i guess the question with your apple, a guy who's worked with some of the top corporations in the world, do you need this? >> right. >> the highest -- you know, the most valuable company in the world, you are on the leading edge of who we are as a culture. do you need this app? can't anybody -- can't mr. armstrong, can't the person at the top go you know what? maybe our shareholder value will not drop if we don't have this app on. i just wonder who's sitting there going yes, we need this thing. why not just apple, just take it away. take it away. you're apple. >> get rid of it. >> just make a statement. >> i agree. i think the statements that some

of these companies are making to try and fend off criticism or lawsuits are pathetic. and we have the coca-cola story coming up. i'm going to run what they ran last night and the latest ad when it comes to their attempt to sort of step into the obesity debate. but joe, you are the one who raised this at the top of the show yesterday. and now they've changed the age on who can use the app so they feel better about themselves. wow! you made a big difference, joe scarborough. >> whatever, mika brzezinski. you know, the thing is, i heard all day yesterday afternoon, there was pushback from people that were saying that this app was not affiliated with the nra. and these were some of the same people that were trying to explain why they need assault weapons to protect their constitutional rights. their arguments are absolutely unbalanced. they really are.

you look at the argument that assault weapons are protected. we hear this all the time by the second amendment. we hear that these high-capacity magazines are protected by the second amendment. they're not. it's right there in heller, scalia wrote it. and yet the nra has so programmed people that like buying a lot of these assault weapons to think, this is your constitution-protected right. james madison gave you this right when he helped draft the bill of rights. it's sheer ignorance of basic constitutional law. it's ignorance of what justice scalia said. and that app, forget about whether 4-year-olds can play it or 8-year-olds can play it or 12-year-olds can play it. >> exactly. >> i guess, mika, the question is, what organization puts out an app like that that any children can play one month after the most just

indescribably horrific slaughter of 6 and 7-year-olds? is that really how they mark the anniversary? has this organization become so out of touch, so insulated, so extreme, so arrogant that they think middle americans are going to put up with that? >> and they also -- look -- >> it's indescribable. >> they want to push back against regulations and laws. you know, i don't want to create a nanny state, as much as you all might disagree with that, but what kind of society do we want to be? what kind of decisions are you going to make, companies, on your own to help our society be better, healthier and promoting of good business and of good people in this world? and if that sounds naive, well, then i'll just go back to work on regulations because -- and policies -- because nobody here is taking any responsibility for what some of these things may cause, directly or indirectly.

i mean, to me, it is the question of who are we, really? >> right. it's about the broader environment that we're creating for ourselves and for our families. and this underlying culture of violence that leads to the kinds of tragedies that took place in newtown but also in columbine and aurora, and we can go through the list. we've almost become numb to the ticker telling us that some other community is confronting this kind of tragedy. and i think we have a responsibility as individuals and as citizens to push back on this. if this isn't the kind of culture we want, then we're going to have to say to companies, to our policymakers, this isn't -- you're going to have to stop. >> joe, i'm talking about playing nice, but i don't think that's going to work. >> and you know, the thing is, we have been focusing, of course, some on the gun lobby. >> right. >> but right after newtown, we were also talking about the responsibility of hollywood. >> right. >> and you want to talk about an industry that is completely

blind to the -- you know, to their responsibility, bringing violence to culture, who was one of the most celebrated men sunday night at "the golden globes"? quentin tarantino. >> yes, he was. >> a man who, first of all, said some i think extraordinarily disrespectful things right after the killings of those young children up in newtown, but then was praised widely in polite society for producing an extraordinarily violent movie that is just one more extraordinarily violent movie that he puts out aimed at teenage boys and boys in their 20s, young men in their 20s. you know, the left will go to the barricades defending hollywood's right to make our violent more coarse, more violent, more out of control. and the right, it seems, the extremes in the nra will go to the wall, go to the barracks --

barricades to defend guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. >> joe, really quickly on the hollywood thing, and look, my kids are not playing violent video games. i don't go to movies like that personally. there is, to me, a huge difference between guns and violence -- >> of course there is, donny, because you're a liberal. >> no, no, because there's a difference -- there's a very slippery slope between freedom of speech and art because then kind of who sits judge and jury versus a very hard line in the sand, no assault weapons, no extra bullets in those magazines, guns kill. once again, let's do all the statistical comparisons, what goes on in other civilized countries and ours. other civilized countries have violent films. >> donny -- >> excuse me? >> donny, other civilized countries don't have 200 million guns in circulation. >> that's exactly my point.

>> if you don't believe -- >> there's the problem and there's the symptom of the problem. >> don request, they're going to stay in circulation. if you believe for one moment that that young man who locked himself in a basement and played video games hour after hour after hour watching -- and simulating murder hour after hour after hour after hour didn't desensitize him, then i think you're sadly mistaken. >> joe -- >> just one other point and then i'll toss it back to you, donny. but your argument about the, quote, slippery slope, couldn't have been said better by wayne lapierre itself. that is such a feeble excuse. >> whoa, i'm not talking about a slippery slope. there's a big difference between a slippery slope and a hard line. please don't compare me to that nut job. come on, joe. >> i have to because this is the argument, donny, that gun rights extremists that say i must have these clips -- or these magazines, i must have these

assault weapons, have been saying for years. oh, if you take away my assault weapon, then i'm not going to be able to have a hunting rifle or a shotgun or a handgun. it is the same argument whether you're talking about the first amendment or the second amendment. the fact that people on the left say we can't have as nuanced approach to cushing violence in hollywood as we can cushing gun violence, i think, donny, is a copout. >> joe, that means any time on the show for the next ten years we come up with any issue on first amendment rights where we go whoa, i hate that, but, then you can bring it back to the nra argument, i really do think that's a little apples and oranges. my point is interesting. they have done so many -- i hate those video games. let me say personally, i hate those video games. but they have done scientific study after study actually one of my ex-partners is the head guy at activision now and was in the meeting with joe biden. and scientist after scientist has showed there is no

correlation in the video games. and i just think pointing in that direction is taking us away from the real problem which is guns. it's not an either/or, but i'd like to start up here. >> first of all, who were the scientists? are they scientists that the video game industry paid for? because i'll tell you what, i conducted my own scientific survey with two teenage boys watching them and watching all of their friends grow up. of course, it wasn't a scientific study. i saw it with my own eyes, and i'm telling you, kids from the age these days of 8, 9, 10 to the time they're 20, 21, 22 simulate the murder of thousands and thousands of human beings on these video games. donny, just -- and i had this conversation with mike barnicle before on the air, i believe -- just as pornography desensitizes young males to sexuality, these video games desensitize young males. and movies by people like

quentin tarantino that make chopped up, shot-up cadavers a punch line where the audience actually laughs, those work together to desensitize young american males. they just do. >> joe, we'll move on. i hate both of those things. my point as a guy who's trying to get things done, let's focus on the guns. you get the guns. >> okay, let's -- >> no, i just -- come on, now. people on the right say let's just focus on hollywood. liberals say let's just focus on the guns. it's not just one or the other. it is -- >> i agree. >> and mika will tell you this. after newtown, i turned to her. i'll say it again. i saw the ticker in times square that talked about a shooting in connecticut. and i turned to mika, and i said, this is a kid who's isolated. he's got mental health problems. i told her what kind of mental health problems the kid had. and he's been locked in his room

playing violent video games for the past several years and has no human contact. i knew that, donny, ten hours before all of those facts came public. so don't tell me there's not a correlation when i can predict ten hours ahead of time exactly -- maybe it's profiling. >> yeah. >> would he have killed those kids if the video games didn't exist? i know there's no definitive answer. we'll never know that. i do know if they didn't have the assault weapons, there would be more kids alive today. >> let me answer your question with a question since that has no answer, and then we'll move on to the nra ad. would you show these violent videos or movies to a 4-year-old? >> no, of course not. >> to a 3-year-old? >> i hate them. >> why? >> the same way i wouldn't let my 4-year-old have that app. >> because their minds are too underdeveloped, right? think of the mind of a kid with any type of mental health issues or developmental issues. their minds aren't developed. >> or that's being bullied at

school or isolated. >> or isolated in some capacity, and therefore i don't care what scientific study the entertainment industry wants to put out there. that's a load of crap. it just is. >> i hate those games. >> they're lying. they're not good for people who are not healthy. >> we've got to move on, they're screaming at me. >> i'm sorry. >> mika, joe mentioned -- and in trying to link things -- the issue of pornography. >> yeah. >> pornographic videos. let's get to the ad. >> okay. >> because this is pornography. >> the nra has released a new ad that brings the president's daughters into the debate over guns in america. >> are the president's kids more important than yours? then why is he skeptical about putting armed security in our schools when his kids are protected by armed guards at their school? mr. obama demands the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes, but he's just another elitist

hypocrite when it comes to a fair share of security. protection for their kids and gun-free zones for ours. >> that's a real ad. that, my friends, is political pornography. >> that's one of the grossest things i've ever seen in my life. >> i don't know what to say. joe? >> what's wrong with these people, mika? what's wrong with these people? you have children that had no say in the decision on whether their father was going to step forward to be president of the united states, to run for president, one of the most bone-crushing sacrificing things any husband or wife can do to their family. and the second they make that decision, their children and their entire family have targets on their backs. and the nra is putting something

out like -- what's wrong with these people, putting out apps that 4-year-olds can play on the anniversary of the newtown murders, and now putting out an ad talking about the president's daughters? >> they are out of step, out of the mainstream, totally out of sync with what's going on in our society. and quite frankly after seeing that, i think some of the people who run that thing are sick. i really do. i think they are sick in the head. and i'm serious. i am embarrassed right now. i'm embarrassed for our country that we have a section of society, the nra, which should have a voice, certainly trying to protect a constitutional amendment. i understand that. and there's a really legitimate he do bait the debate there. they just took it and brought it down to the lowest most base level. i don't even -- it's now fringe. it's fringe. >> they need new leadership is

what they need. >> whatever. >> their leadership has dragged them over the cliff. they are now a fringe organization with millions of mainstream americans, gun -- you know, hunting -- guys and women that love to hunt. >> yeah. you should be embarrassed to be part of the nra at this point. >> have a right to protect their families. and what the nra once was it no longer is. this extremism is so frightening and just over the line. >> i think this helps us understand why we are where we are right now with regard to policies in our country. because this is the kind of ad that we can anticipate for the next several months as the president announces the kinds of policies that he's going to announce today, which i think will be holistic, not just a list of guns but a whole range. of issues. but because of this kind of ad, because people would go to this level, people are scared to take

on this issue as a policy matter. and that's what's going to infiltrate the debate. those are the kinds of visits members of congress are going to get, and that's why people have been scared to take on this issue even after tragedy after tragedy around the country, and the american people have to be prepared for that and make a decision what kind of country do we want to live in and the message that they want to convey to their policymakers about the kinds of laws and the kinds of policies that we're going to have. >> you know what? i was okay -- i was even going to try and understand the people running to gun shops and the loading up on these high-capacity weapons, assault weapons and magazines. i was willing to, like, understand this debate and understand their fear of laws changing and try and discuss it on the show. but after seeing that, honestly, i'm done. they're done. this ad is the final straw. >> it can't be a real ad. mike, it can't be a real ad, mike. that's an "snl" ad, right? >> that's some sick person who

did it at home in their basement. >> did the nra come out and say it's their ad? >> it's their ad. unfortunately it's a real ad. you know, people going to gun stores and buying guns today or yesterday, they didn't make the ad. the national rifle association made the ad. and in making the ad, they put the president's children -- and by the way, your children right into the jackpot. so let's take a look at it again. >> great. >> are the president's kids more important than yours? then why is he skeptical about putting armed security in our schools when his kids are protected by armed guards at their school? mr. obama demands the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes, but he's just another elitist hypocrite when it comes to a fair share of security. protection for their kids and gun-free zones for ours. >> you still cannot believe that that's real.

you cannot -- it's almost unfathomable. >> i just -- >> i don't believe it. >> it's stunning. >> it's just disgusting people. it's a vulgar -- it's not even -- you just get to a point where it's below human decency. >> it's evil. >> mika, let's just -- i am looking forward to a statement from the nra on this ad and their app. this is how -- this is how they mark the anniversary of newtown, a month later. i've never seen an organization as out of touch and extreme with middle america as this one. and those numbers we saw yesterday, mika, where their approval rating's upside down, it's only going to get worse and worse and worse. the nra's worst enemy could not be doing the damage to this once-respected, mainstream

organization as wayne lapierre every single day. >> i'm terrified. coming up, former white house press secretary robert gibbs joins us, political director chuck todd, ben smith and the "today" show's hoda kotb. up next, jim vandehei with the top stories in the "politico playbook." first bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> mika, i'm hearing numerous of nightmare morning commutes anywhere from boston down to outside new york city. this is worcester, massachusetts. i've already heard that the schools are canceled for the day. many areas of connecticut, massachusetts and rhode island and northern jersey are looking at either delays or cancellations at all your children's schools. here's the radar. this isn't even a major snowstorm. i doubt anyone's going to see six inches, but the timing was horrible, starting in the overnight, intense now over areas of rhode island to boston,

connecticut. the timing for the morning commute, really bad. the plows are trying to keep up with it, but even though it's only three, four, five inches of snow, it's coming down at a pretty good clip. down along the connecticut coast, southern rhode island and new york city, the sleet's been nasty. about a half inch of sleet making sidewalks and roads very, very dangerous. so far the airports no delays. this map an hour from now will look a lot worse. trust me on that as the flights get up and going. the forecast today will be above freezing in the big cities. so we're not worried about the roads late today. going home will be a lot easier. if you're traveling down around atlanta today, a lot of heavy rain this afternoon with also possible airport delays. once again, a really nasty probably one of the worst travel mornings of the winter season in southern new england. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. it's a new day.

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27 past the hour. time now to take a look at the "morning papers." "the new york times," deadly explosions at a university in syria killed as many as 82 people and wounded nearly 20 more. the blast struck as students were taking their tests yesterday. it's not clear what caused the explosions, though they were am bos, missiles or even air strikes, but both ba sar al assad's governments and activists are blaming each other. "the washington post." france is backing the military campaign. according to "the post," the u.s. already providing surve surveillance and intelligence help but may also now help with transport and refueling. still the u.s. is limited in how much it can aid mali because the government there seized power in a coup. from our parade of papers, "the seattle times," japan's top

airlines have decided to ground their fleets because of boeing 787 dreamliners. yesterday a flight in japan had to make an emergency landing after detecting smoke in one of the engines and an alert showing battery problems. this after a rash of incidents involving dreamliners flown by japanese airlines including one last week that also had problems with a battery near the tail section. "the wall street journal," facebook's introduction of a search function that could browse through users' profile information is a key indicator facebook plans to take the fight for web dominance directly to google. the graph search as it's called has been in development for more than a year. the announcement could also affect sites like linkedin and yelp whose shares dropped 7% yesterday in the wake of that announcement. time now for "politico." >> joining us now with a look at the "politico playbook," executive editor mr. jim vandehei. how you doing? >> doing okay. how are you? >> there's a group of republicans who believe the debt

ceiling is not the armageddon it's been out to be and some say it's just an excuse for the president to keep on spending. explain their position. >> and it's not a small group of republicans. it might be the dominant thought process right now inside the house republican conference. they basically believe if you don't raise the debt limit, it does not necessarily mean default, that you can stack your payments, you can wait until enough tax revenue comes in to delay some payments, that you can shut down parts of the government that they don't consider essential. that just because we don't raise the debt limit, it would default. despite pressure from big business, despite pressure from the president, despite pressure from their own leadership, there's a lot of house republicans who just don't buy it. they don't believe what everybody else is saying about the effects of not raising the debt limit which to me says there's a better chance that there's the potential for default than people realize because house republicans have had it. they feel they have to make a stand, and this is going to be one of their stands to make sure

they can shrink government and they're i willing to take risks that everyone else says you shouldn't be making. >> on the other side, the president had said i'm not going to allow republicans to hold the economy hostage. he said we could be downgraded by the credit agencies. so what happens if the president holds that position, which there's no reason to believe he won't, and republicans hold theirs, the one you just laid out, what happens to the economy? what happens to the politics of it? >> the vast majority of economists would say that on the economic side, it could be catastrophic. we don't know. if you don't lift the debt limit, we don't know what happens with our creditors, we don't know what happens with the strength of the u.s. economy. we do know that bad things probably happen. we also assume that house republicans at the end of the day will blink on this. i just would not make that assumption. i would look back to that tax vote after christmas. three-quarters of the republican party did not go along with speaker boehner on the compromise on increasing taxes. these guys don't care what leadership has to say about this issue. they want to shrink government. they were elected to shrink government.

and whether it's defaulted, whether it's shutting down the government, whether it's allowing sequestration to kick in, they're going to make it happen in the next couple of months. and nobody knows how that will play out. >> we may just find out what happens when we reach the debt limit. jim, in spite of what the white house's grand plans for gun reform may be, there still may be not a lot of backing in congress. if you look at even republicans in the midwest and republicans in the north, how does this play out right now in congress? >> well, right. there's going to be a lot of focus on gun control. there has been since the shooting, and there will be when the president unveils his package today. i would caution people to look at the vote count inside the house republican conference. there is almost no support for doing anything on new gun control, nothing on magazine size, nothing on assault weapon ban, nothing beyond maybe tightening background checks. even moderate republicans in suburban districts say they're not hearing anything from their constituents on this issue. they say they have no appetite whatsoever to do new gun control. so while there might be a lot of

public pressure and while mayor bloomberg and a lot of folks are putting a ton of pressure on congress to do something, house republicans aren't feeling it, and they're not going to bring a bill to the floor to have a vote on this. so i think the chances of getting anything big on gun control in this next congress are much lower again than people understand because they don't understand the views of house republicans and the power that they have in the house to prevent legislation from coming to the house floor. >> without those votes, speaker boehner not a lot of incentive to move on it himself. victim vandehei with a look at the "playbook," thanks so much. >> have a good day. coming, we're still a month away from pitchers and catchers reporting, but mike, the red sox already making unwanted headlines. former manager terry francona calling out the owners. is it going to be another year like this in boston? that's next in sports. with the spark cash card from capital one, olaf gets great rewards for his small business!

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on monday, lance armstrong admitted doping while he was winning the tour de france seven times. >> what? you let me down. i believed in you, lance armstrong. i shelled out a dollar for a

rubber bracelet that i have somewhere in my house for you. i did it for you. and when i think of the fact that i spent a dol -- well, i think we all owe cancer an apology. >> welcome back to "morning joe." 6:38 here on the east coast. time for a little sports where oprah winfrey has confirmed that lance armstrong indeed admitted to doping during her 2 1/2-hour interview with him conducted on monday. it airs tomorrow on the own network. but according to the world anti-doping agency, armstrong's couch confession to oprah isn't going to be enough to get his lifetime ban lifted. armstrong will have to testify according to them to his cheating under oath if he hopes to compete in the future. significant legal fallout may be on the way for armstrong. espn reporting the justice department is ready to join former teammate floyd landis's lawsuit that accuses armstrong of defrauding the u.s. postal service. the postal service spent about

$30 million sponsoring armstrong's tour de france team. >> i'm still not getting why he admitting it would then allow him to compete. it just makes him a bigger jerk. i don't get even the logic. >> i'm not getting how the post office can still $30 million on lance armstrong and go broke. >> i'm not getting how you do 2 1/2 hours with this guy. it's about seven minutes. >> i did it. >> more seriously as an image guy, can he redeem himself? >> no. wh >> what can he do? >> do good. as far as anything from i acorporate point of view, done, later. >> he's in barry bonds territory. >> infinitely worse. >> on to baseball. according to terry francona, marketing consultants who advised the team during the 2010 season want eed to make winning sexier. francona describes meetings where red sox ownership was more concerned with tv ratings than

winning. a $100,000 marketing research project commissioned by the team encouraged the sox to spend big on, quote, good-looking stars and sex symbols. this all according to francona in his book. the book connects that recommendation with the decision to spend $296 million on carl crawford and adrian gonzalez who since have been traded to the dodgers. francona will be on "morning joe" next wednesday. mike? >> look, i love tito. he's a good friend of mine. he's wrong. the red sox management, the ownership were interested only in winning. nobody forced anybody to sign carl crawford. they did it because they thought that carl crawford would help them get to the world series again. >> by the way, he was a great player before he got to the red sox. it wasn't like he was an image guy. he had great numbers. up next, "mika's must-read opinion pages." plus the folks over at badlipreading.com treat us to another installment of what they do best. >> fantastic. >> i want it now! i want cake now! i want it now!

♪ ah >> what's wrong with him? >> alex. >> we'll show you the full clip ahead on "morning joe." at a dry cleaner, we replaced people with a machine. what?

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♪ or turn 30-million artifacts... ♪ into a high-tech masterpiece? ♪ whatever your business challenge, dell has the technology and services to help you solve it. live look at the capitol at 44 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." we're going to take a look at a couple of different things for the "must-read opinion pages." i'd like to actually, joe, get to your "politico" column which i think is really timely given the conversation we've had this morning. but take a look at this. this was a study that was done in 2001 out of iowa state university entitled "the effects

of violent video games on aggressive behavior, aggressive cognition, aggressive effect, physiological arousal and pro-social behavior. the abstract posted in the american psychological society journal reads, in part, this: research on exposure to television and movie violence suggests that playing violent video games will increase aggressive behavior. a metmeta analytic review that violent video games increase aggressive behavior in children and young adults. experimental and nonexperimental studies with males and females in laboratory field settings support this conclusion. analyses also reveal that exposure to violent video games increases physiological arousal and aggression-related thoughts and feelings. playing violent video games also decreases pro-social behavior. does any of this not make

perfect sense? >> well, you know, it really should. and in this association of psychological science abstract, they say that not only does it affect psychological development in young -- not only young males but also young women, but there are physiological changes in the way the body responds to arousal regarding violence. i mean, you look at this study and look at other studies, it's all out there. and it's obvious. and i think the denial of this from people on the left i think hurts their cause. >> yeah. >> like we've said from the very beginning, this is a very big all-encompassing problem that we have to face together. it's not left and right. >> not a denial. as a guy who has a business background who wants to solve a problem, the more you focus on video games, the more you let the nra off the hook to solve

this problem, you get the guns. i hate those video games. i'm not saying it's an either/or, but sometimes it is an either/or. that's the solution. >> donny, i don't want to let people like quentin tarantino off the hook. i don't want to let people like your friends at activision off the hook. people that make billions of dollars selling mind-numbing violence -- >> i hate those games. >> -- that you said last hour had no impact on children's behavior. it does. and there's study after study that shows it does. so i think i need to say to you the same thing i need to say to my friends on the right, and that is quit protecting yourself side. we've got to bring everything to the table. >> yes. >> and do what we can to protect our children. don't go into your ideological corner. we've got to all be in this fight together. >> joe, it's actually quite the opposite of ideological. in the real world, i'm saying if i'm looking at this as a swat

analysis, okay, identify got to solve this problem, if i factor in everything, yes. there are psychological cause and effects in video games. i'll give you that, even know studies will show in both directions. my point is it takes away, in my mind, as a problem solver -- >> okay. >> -- which is get the guns, period, beginning, middle, ending. >> that's just shortsighted and wrong. >> to act out, and i know this may sound rather extreme, but if anybody here is a parent and has a child who's struggling socially anyway, then you know exactly what i'm talking about. and these video games are frightening because if a child is socially isolated and grows up into teenage years and even early adulthood, they're also sexually frustrate d, and they'e trying to figure themselves out. they're alone. and if they sit in a room and they watch these violent games and they basically simulate mass killings, it is -- and that

study will back it up -- a form of release or arousal for them, and that's not good. and if i sound like i'm saying something crazy, then you don't want to have an intelligent discussion about this. because it is very clear -- i mean, anybody with a child that -- >> read the studies. >> read it but look at your own children, look at what you want to expose them to and what you don't want to expose them to and why. and then tell me that all of our children are perfect and that they won't face struggle in life and that you don't want to surround them with the right thing. come on. >> what i'm saying is it's almost an impossible mission to isolate children from the stimuli in our society that's going to push them over the edge. where is the solution? the guns. >> come on, man, that's a copout. >> it's not a copout, it's solving a problem. >> that's a copout. >> you can't get your arms around movies. >> you're saying it's impossible to isolate our children from certain stimuli in culture? oh, is it really?

well, then why don't we just make pornography legal for kids to look at in school. that's a copout. >> but you know what? >> you can't have this absolutist left-wing view when it comes to the first amendment. >> joe, i promise you your kids, at underage, somehow found their way to pornography. that's my point. you're never going to stop that. you can stop the guns. we can't insulate our kids. we as parents can do what we can do at home. >> there is, donny, a continuum. and somewhere along that line we do whatever we can do just like we do whatever we can do within reason to keep terrorists from boarding planes and blowing up american citizens, we do what we have to do. to throw our hands up in the air, as you're suggesting, first saying that violent culture coming out of hollywood is not a problem and then saying okay, it is a problem, but we can't do anything about it, that's exactly what people in the nra want you to believe when it comes to guns, and it's wrong. >> can i just say real quickly, the next step. let's take it to the next part

of this. what do you do about it? what do you tell quentin tarantino if you want the movie to be less violent? you can have "x" murders? how do you legislate that. we're talking about parenting which i think we all agree keep your kids away from that stuff as best you can. what do you do from a legislative point of view? >> as far as video games go, willie, i think there are a lot of different ways. you can change the ratings system. as far as quentin tarantino goes, i think you need to bring people like harvey weinstein around the table, other leaders in hollywood around the table and just say, this is no longer socially acceptable. it is no more socially acceptable after newtown for you to give quentin tarantino money, to make movies that glorify slaughter, murder, rage than it would be, harvey, for you to give somebody millions of dollars to make a cheap porn

movie. >> but joe -- >> and the vice president did bring, you know, the mpaa and others around the table as he's been going through this process. it will be interesting to see what kinds of proposals are announced today because the white house has said this has to be comprehensive, has to be holistic. there isn't a single answer to this problem for all the reasons that we've been discussing. and if we can continue to have thoughtful conversations and holistic conversations like the one around this table, hopefully we can move the needle on the things that we have to do as citizens. >> harvey weinstein actually wants to be part of that conversation. joe, we have a call with him today. i'm sure we'll be talking about that. but he's really definitely trying to figure this out. your piece in "politico," the high cost of the nra's extremism we'll do at the top of the hour. it's getting a huge reaction. coming up, former white house press secretary robert gibbs standing by in the green room. he joins us ahead. we're back in a moment. she knows you like no one else.

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next monday and tuesday, "morning joe" going to be live from the dubliner in d.c. for president obama's second inauguration. come on by if you're in the area. remember we were there four years ago, had a good time when this guy was just starting out in the white house. former white house press secretary robert gibbs with hipster frames on his glasses.

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defend ourselves, but we're going to do it intelligently, and we're going to do it prudently, and we're going to put rules in place that actually protect innocent people in society. >> and with that, new york has become the first state to tighten its gun-control laws in the aftermath of newtown, governor andrew cuomo signed the wide-ranging bill last night. the package includes an expansion on the existing ban on assault weapons. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and melody barnes still with us. joining the set along with me, willie and joe as well, former white house press secretary, robert gibbs. gibby, good to see you. good to have you on board. let's get right to the news. this morning president obama is slated to unveil a sweeping list of proposals aimed at reducing gun violence. it's part of a package put together by vice president joe biden and his white house task force. senior administration officials tell nbc news the biggest proposals will include universal background checks and a ban on

high-capacity magazines. that's anything that carries more than ten rounds of ammunition. the president's also expected to ask congress to reinstate the assault weapons ban. as for possible executive orders, the president is expected to seek aggressive prosecution for those who break existing laws. for example, people who lie during background checks. the white house says the president will be joined by children from around the country who wrote letters to him following the newtown shootings. we're about to show, joe, because i still can't believe it, the ad that the nra has put out in the middle of this national conversation. but first, what do you think the president's chances are of being successful at getting this sled legislation through? >> well, it depends. we're on ever-shifting ground. things changed an awful lot after newtown. even the polls over the past two weeks have changed dramatically

since wayne lapierre's tone-deaf press conference. when lapierre gave that press conference immediately following it, the nra still had a positive rating. you look at the abc news l news/"washington post" poll, we saw a big shift in a lot of areas. of course, the nra's approval rating is now upside down because unfortunately right now it seems -- and you're going to show this in the commercial and for the game app for young children that they can use, the nra's been taken over by extremists in their leadership. and they're taking this once-great organization over an ideological cliff. so now you have an overwhelming majority of americans supporting the president's position on universal background checks. overwhelming number of americans supporting, limiting high-capacity magazines. you also have a majority of americans -- and this really

surprises me -- over 60% of americans supporting a national database that will be able to track gun sales. why is this happening? why now are more americans in support of banning assault weapons than they have been in over a decade? because the nra's leadership has been so aggressive and been so out of touch and have done things that are so offensive. we now have a 20-point spread on the banning of assault weapons, according to "the washington post"/abc news poll which is, of course, one of the most accurate throughout all of 2012. so mika, where are we today? we are at a place today we were not at a week ago. a week ago i really wonder whether the president was united states would have put the assault weapon ban in the package. >> yeah. >> but because of the nra's missteps, because of i think some very offensive actions they've taken since wayne

lapierre's press conference, the white house sees americans moving their way. and who knows what the next week brings from an organization that actually now is putting the president's children in gun ads. >> well, we'll get to that ad in just a moment. it's stunning, if you haven't seen it, it is sickening. they are now literally, in my mind, and i think the minds of anybody who watches it who's intelligence, on the fringe. having said that, the reality that the president is dealing with, robert gibbs, is that there's a rush on guns in certain parts of the country because they're afraid guns are going to be taken away, their second amendment rights will be taken away. there is this fear that the president is going to sort of impact this country in a negative way. there's also an organization which is very powerful called the nra that would put out an ad like the one we're about to show. what does the president need to do to get this done, to win this? >> i think he has to look at today as the very beginning of a long, arduous, very, very tough

campaign. and i think the whole white house has to act like it. you know, he's got to just not be passionate today and tell the stories of those children that will be at this event, but he's got to do it each and every day for a while. he's got to get out of the white house and travel the country. he's got to make his case directly to the people. he's got to do what melody and i saw him do on health care, which is get on the phone and call individual members of congress, individual senators and explain to them why this is important. and i'd say last but not least, the nra is continually trumpeting -- they increased their membership by "x" amount, and i'm sure there's not a legislator in congress that hasn't been told in their district how many people have joined the nra since newtown. the president has the most exciting campaign apparatus ever

built. it's time to turn that loose. it's time to turn that loose for something more than just an election, right? if the nra's got a list, then obama for america has a bigger list. and it is time to get activated again. lots of people on that list told us for four years when for the last four years that they wanted to be asked to do something besides just participate in an election, and i would turn them loose on a battle that's so important for our kids. the presidents' got to do this each and every day. today's going to be a go ahead good event. today will be an important be n beginning to this, but it is by no means anything close to what has to happen. i was up on capitol hill in 1994 as i literally began working in february 1994. i only saw the very end of the crime bill. i didn't see the fact that the assault weapons ban had been introduced five years earlier.

so this is going to take a concerted effort by the president, by the vice president, by the white house, one on one on the phone, out in big settings throughout the country, and turning loose his campaign apparatus for something bigger than just an election. >> well, you mentioned the campaign apparatus, the data that ba database, the most sophisticated ever put together on a campaign and employing it on behalf of an issue like this right now, are they going to do that? are there plans to do that? >> i hope so. i hope so. look, this is a big list. and we know this about this list. this list will get active, and it will do things if the person in charge of this list asked them to do something. and i can't think of nothing better for the president to begin a second term by asking this list to do than to get out a clipboard again, though they're far more sophisticated than clip billion boaboard, get

pair of shoes that they knocked on doors with, and get out there and do something about this because the difference in the politics this time, and, you know, a lot of people will tell the white house, pundits will tell the white house, be careful, don't push for too much because if you lose, you'll be like george bush on social security reform in 2005. i hope that sort of mentality doesn't get even close to the threshold of 1600 pennsylvania avenue because it's completely wrong. joe just showed the politics of gun safety is not close anymore. the assault weapons ban is basically a 60/40 issue. it is time to get something done. every one of us, that afternoon when we turned on our television sets and saw what was happening in connecticut, all of us had the very same feeling. what would i do if i had turned on that television set and that school was my child's school? and the question is, what are we going to do?

and if we don't do something, we're going to do this debate all over again, but let's have a public accounting of where people are on these issues right now. >> real quick, melody. >> well, one i think robert's absolutely right. and i think ofa, i think that apparatus absolutely will be turned on for this. and one of the reasons people will be mobilized is because as the president said, he's starting with what's right. he's starting with what's necessary. secondly, i think that's important to do, and i worked for ted kennedy for eight years. he used to say congress is about chemistry. it's chemical. at any moment something can change. you have to be prepared to go through that window when the opportunity appears, and that's what's being set up. >> joe, let's show this ad. the nra has released a new ad on their website. it's also airing on the sportsmen channel. and i just have to say, my reaction to it all morning long has been very visceral and very personal. i come, for the record, from a family of gun owners and hunt s hunters. but this ad brings the

president's daughters into the debate. it may disgust you. it terrifies me. take a look. >> are the president's kids more important than yours? then why is he skeptical about putting armed security in our schools when his kids are protected by armed guards at their school? mr. obama demands the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes, but he's just another elitist hypocrite when it comes to a fair share of security. protection for their kids and gun-free zones for ours. >> even before we knew about this ad, joe, you wrote this in "politico." the high cost of the nra's extremism. "as a longtime supporter of the second amendment, i had hoped their executives and lobbyists would not take an absolutist position on the issue since that would ultimately set back the cause of gun rights. unfortunately, mr. lapierre chose to respond as if it were 1994.

as we predicted, his extreme position has now cost nra leaders political support. a new abc news/"washington post" poll shows that for the first time in years, a majority of americans now support a ban on certain types of assault weapons. more to the point of our earlier warning, the nra's own approval rating has plummeted since lapierre's tone-deaf news conference. it is hard to imagine how the nra's worst enemy could have done more damage to the organization than the out-of-touch leader is doing to himself. he is shooting himself in the foot." time and time again, i don't even know what to make of what they thought they might have been doing, joe, with this ad. are they bringing in people and i'm just completely so liberal and so tone deaf that i don't get america? >> let me just say, mika, if you were running a crisis management team for the nra right now -- >> yeah, i wouldn't give them

this advice. >> -- you should be fired. whoever told wayne lapierre to go out and give the tone-deaf press conference that he gave doesn't understand the long-term damage that they have caused to the nra's brand in middle america. whoever recommended that a month after the newtown killings of 20 6 and 7-year-old little children, then they decided to mark that with the release of an iphone game, an iphone app, that at the time allowed 4-year-olds to target practice with assault weapons, that is an organization terribly out of touch with middle america. whoever decided to put out a television ad that put the president's two young daughters in the center of that ad, do not understand that when you take extreme positions like that in 2012, that's still impacting middle americans in 2020.

certainly in 2014, certainly in 2016. and what is happening now, if republicans in the house of representatives are smart, politically and that remains to be seen, they're understanding that being tied to the nra is pulling them away from certain groups in their districts. more moderate republicans, conservative democrats, and, you know, parents of all ideological stripes. whoever, willie, is running this organization's pr operation should be fired. this has been a disastrous month for them. and their response to newtown has been as tone deaf as any organization i've seen on the american landscape in years. >> well, first of all, that ad is disgusting, and we would say that if it was talking about the bush twins. it's not a political point. it's just a point about the daughters of the president. but the nra is speaking to its

constituency. there was a report yesterday that has added 250,000 members. a quarter of a million members since the newtown shooting. that came from a report last week where "politico" said they added 100, now up another 100,000 since then. from where we're sitting, the nra isn't looking at the larger gun conversation. they're looking at protecting their members. and they believe they have done that. they believe they're doing it with ads like that. they see gun sales up. they see their membership up, and they think they're doing their job to take care of the people they represent and not looking at the bigger picture of the national conversation. >> i don't know if that's the case, if that's what they're really looking at or if they're protecting gun manufacturers and the millions and millions of dollars that gun manufacturers and retailers and gun store owners have made since the slaughter of these 6 and 7-year-old children in newtown on december 14th. but i do know this. mitt romney sure did have

really, really big rallies at the end of that campaign. why, he had over 30,000 in pennsylvania. certainly this is indicative of ai bigger movement. why, he had 25,000 in ohio the saturday before the election. i've never seen such excitement, such anecdotal evidence, and now i hear the nra, why, they're getting thousands and thousands of new members every day. certainly that must mean something wonderful for the organization. oh, wait. no, i'm sorry. we're getting polls out that show you're losing ten points a week in your approval rating. you have lost the assault weapon argument with middle america. as robert said, when this started before wayne lapierre's press conference, assault weapon ban, that was an upside-down issue. it's now a 60/40 issue. >> the nra is making -- >> now these apps that

4-year-olds can use after these commercials that target the obama children politically, those numbers, i think, are going to continue to break. i'm telling you, robert gibbs, these people are causing serious damage to their brand and more importantly to the cause of the second amendment. >> i absolutely don't disagree. i mean, i think they have done more so set back their own cause. but let's peer through some of the twisted logic in some of what they've done. i mean, the notion from wayne lapierre that the only way to match a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, why do we provide the bad guys with the type of weapons that they use in afghanistan? why are we -- why are we dependent upon having a good guy with a gun? we're depending on that, in their logic, because we've decided that what we -- what we hunt the taliban with is okay to

have in your neighborhood. that doesn't make any sense. >> and by the way, robert, on that front -- >> i'll say this. you and i are from the south, right? >> right. >> hunting is important. i was never a hunter, but a lot of my friends were. none of my friends have ever gone into the woods looking for anything with one of those guns. and if they ever did go into the woods with something looking for something with one of those guns and needed one of those guns in the woods, they would get out of the woods. you would get out of the woods. >> yeah. >> this isn't a sport. these are unnecessary weapons, unnecessary magazines. this is common accepts. sense. >> joe manchin and a lot of other people that have hunted their entire life said i've never gone into the woods needing more than ten bullets. it's extreme. you know, that argument that wayne lapierre said that excites some in the base, just like those people that were excited at those last-minute romney rallies, said, you know, if a bad person has a gun, you need a good person with a gun.

that's the only way you can stop a bad person with a gun. he was talking, of course, about having armed guards in every school in america. and great, i'd love to have an armed guard at my children's schools. please, put them there. if we've got the money, let's do it. but you know what happens with anybody that knows anything about guns, robert, with an armed guard standing out front of a school with a pistol or a revolver, even a glock, which he wouldn't have, a guy walks in across the street and lifts his bushmaster and blows the guy away in two seconds and walks over the good guy's body. >> right. >> it's just like you said, why do we want to arm the bad guys with military-style weapons, especially when antonin scalia says quite clearly in heller, those guns are not constitutionally protected by the second amendment. >> this battle -- to quote the

federal judge that sentenced the shooter of gabby giffords, renewing the assault weapons ban, strengthening the assault weapons ban and doing away with these high-capacity magazines, takes the mass out of mass shooting. that's what this does. that's what we have to do. and this is a moment i don't think we can miss. >> what was your quick reaction to the ad? >> i mean, it is disgusting on many levels. it's also -- it's just stupid. i think what willie said. this is a conversation that they're all having with themselves, right? this also reminds had he -- i did a bunch of campaigns obviously for the presidential campaign. this reminds me of an ad that somebody made about 2:00 in the morning after one too many drinks, and no one stopped it in the morning. we've all been in those campaigns when you come in and you watch the ad and you're going good god, that's crazy. >> we were really, really tired. yeah, this is sick. >> and no one stopped that.

and i think they're doing themselves tremendous harm, but i think this is -- we have to fill that space. >> right. >> so -- >> you know, mika. >> yeah. >> also, you know, they're talking to themselves. like robert said. they're in an echo chamber. they go to the same websites. they watch the same shows. they listen to the same talk radio shows that told them for a year and a half that mitt romney was going to be elected president of the united states. and if you actually -- >> by a landslide. >> -- tried to interject any facts into that argument, then you were a rino or a liberal member of the media or a socialist that just hated america. no, actually, at the end of the day, you were none of those thin things. you were just right. and in this case, you've got the same thing happening again where websites where whipping people into frenzies and talk radio hosts are whipping people into frenzy. it is a small subset of

americans. and who is going to pay the most for this? politically, the republican party that doesn't catch the prevailing winds today in 2013 any more than they did in 2012 will pay a heavy price. my hope, as a loyal republican, is that my side will get it and that they will go where america is and not where some extremist survivalists who believe the federal government is coming to kick down their houses and shoot their family dead, not with them. that's not the future. those of us who are optimistic and believe that america's greatest days lie ahead, we don't think the army's coming to kill us. and we don't think we need a weapon to kill members of the united states armed forces. so what side do the republicans want to be on? their future depends on which side they choose. >> and at the top of this block, you were talking about how this needs to be a campaign for the president. it was personal when newtown happened.

this ad is personal, too. i can't imagine the president and his wife won't be horrified when they see what the nra is doing. will your advice be to react personally and to get involved on every level? >> absolutely. i think you've got to be all in on this. and i will say this, to build off of joe's point. it will be interesting today to see how long it takes republicans to get asked about this and walk away from it. and then i think it will be an important inflection point early on in this debate. >> great. >> puts everybody's children right into the jackpots. >> melody and robert, thank you so much. up next, nbc news political director chuck todd and ben smith joins the conversation. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. i just served my mother-in-law your chicken noodle soup but she loved it so much... i told her it was homemade. everyone tells a little white lie now and then. but now she wants my recipe [ clears his throat ] [ softly ] she's right behind me isn't she?

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a live look at the white house as the sun comes up over washington. it looks like another nice day there. melody and robert are still with us. i was busy not listening to my

producers, obviously. i'm glad you're here. joining us now from washington, we have nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd. and here on set, editor in chief of "buzzfeed," ben smith. good to have you on as well. how's it going? >> good. thanks for having me. >> let's start with chuck and where the president goes from here after -- especially after what happened in the state of new york yesterday. >> well, you know, it's interesting, the fact is they've made the political decision to go big. for what it's worth, right? everything they're unveiling, they know that there is going -- that a lot of this -- probably at least half of what they're asking congress to do might not even get a vote. and that's going to be the next level of this, right? which is sort of the politics of getting this through congress. and where can you build consensus and where can't you? and, you know, the order with which the president talks about

these things will actually be a hint, i'm told, where he believes is sort of the best chance to worst chance of getting these things passed through congress. universal background checks is what the president, i'm told, is going to lean heaviest on because it's not only what a lot of law enforcement officials said was the number one thing they'd like to see. that includes closing the gun show loophole, all of those things, but that could be the most effective and have the best chance of getting through congress with some republican support. that the hardest part of what he's going to ask congress to do, the hardest thing to get passed is going to be that assault weapons ban, mika. >> yeah. robert gibbs, a lot of people say it has to include many things, it has to be broad, but is there a worry, a risk, that then it doesn't happen? >> i think there always is that risk, sure. but, again, i think that's why, you know, today's a beginning. today is the beginning of what has to be an everyday campaign.

it has to be -- as i said, we have to take this way out into the country. he needs to go into red states and talk about this. he's got to get on the phone when he's on air force one and when he's, you know, sitting around the oval office and talk one on one with these guys. it's not going to be easy votes for these folks, there's no doubt about that. turn the campaign apparatus loose, make this a full-fledged campaign. i've got to tell you, i think there's nothing to lose on this. i know that there are people that will say oh, if you go big and you don't get it, there's a huge down side politically. i do not think there's a down side politically on this. i think the american people, if you look at that polling that joe just talked about, they are with the president on this. this event changed the way we think about these things. it didn't change after columbine, which was an awful tragedy. >> yeah. >> nothing -- you know, not long after columbine, the assault weapons ban lapsed. you know, none of this stuff happened. this was a moment that made a lot of people in this country

change their viewpoint on this debate. >> i think it's clear why, ben. i mean, especially given just all of the extremes that came together in that one terrible, terrible, terrible day in newtown. >> well, i think what you're hearing robert saying is what a lot of democrats and gun-control advocates think that the debate has fundamentally shifted. you've often seen big numbers for banning assault weapons if you put it that way, but the people who care most and the people who rather care are the core of the nra. and you've seen a couple of changes. one is that a broad swath of americans are really activated about it. another is that mike bloomberg is pouring millions and millions of dollars in, which is also new. the idea that there are single-issue people on the gun-control side in big numbers with big money is really a new thing. >> there's another reason why you cannot lose on this, why you can beat the nra in this, and

it's encased in three numbers, and the numbers are 20, 6 and 1. 20 of the victims were children who were 6 years of age, who were in the first grade. that resonates -- that ripple effect through this country is going to be there. it's there today. it's going to be there for many, many months, and there's no reason not to stand up and go after the nra on this. >> go ahead, mehdi. >> i think there's also an interesting data point. looking within the nra, i think it's something like 74% of nra members also support a larger background check process. >> yeah. >> it isn't monolithic, one. two, i think it's also important that the president is probably going to announce several different kinds of tools, things he expects the congress to do and wants the congress to do but also things he can do within his own administrative or executive authority. so he can move this debate, start getting things done but also go for the push that robert was talking about. >> all right. i want to move on to some other

news stories. we're going to get to the coca-cola story, but this is about chuck hagel. and chuck todd, ben wrote about how the pro-israel lobby won the chuck hagel fight, saying in part this. "the good news for hagel's allies and defenders is that schumer offered his tentative support for the former nebraska republican senator. the bad news for hagel's allies among realist foreign policy thinkers and on the foreign policy left is that the nominee appears to have gotten schumer's support by repudiating virtually everything they liked about him. this was always a likely endpoint of the battle over hagel, which has been a proxy war over israel and over a broader foreign policy philosophy, but it has come with remarkable speed and comprehensiveness." chuck todd, where does it stand right now? >> well, it's funny you say that. this says what i've learned and why -- how chuck hagel won chuck schumer, ben's right, it was over hagel sort of repudiating

some of his positions, in particular, on iran. so one of the things that chuck hagel made clear to schumer is hey, the first briefing i got on the pentagon was about military preparations to take action against iran, if necessary. and that chuck hagel made it clear that he did support unilateral military action against iran, if necessary. that that was on the table. so there is that where you've heard there are some folks in the democratic caucus in the senate who are suddenly disappointed that hagel so quickly moved in the direction to appease schumer, to appease some of the more pro-israeli senators on the democratic side who were concerned about the comments he had made about iran, in particular. not the whole jewish lobby business and all that, but this was a substantive thing that people like schumer, lautenberg, menendez, a lot of these -- there's about ten of these

pro-israeli senators who were truly leaning no, frankly, at one point when it came to hagel, and hagel moved swiftly. this confirmation is done other than this one aspect, mika, and that is whether republicans decide to try to filibuster it. >> joe? >> so, ben, you know, we're talking about the political confirmation game right here. we're talking about what chuck hagel is telling senators when he's sitting in their offices or when he's on the phone, but let's talk about political realities. chuck hagel's not going to make a decision over whether we invade iran or not. the same thing goes with israel. hagel supporters should be pleased that a guy that's not a knee-jerk and neoconservative is going to be secretary of defense and that he's going to be showing a lot more restraint because he remains a realist even when he's in that job and he's around the table talking to the president, giving him the options that he has.

>> i mean, i think people who like hagel personally should be pleased. people who like the idea that he's someone who can cut defense spending and is willing to do that and has the credibility to do that should be pleased. but there was also an element of this that was sort of a symbolic early squirmish over military action in iran. that hagel could only take the job by basically reversing himself on this stuff. and also on some of the things about israel. his statement to schumer showed explicit support for israeli civilian casualties in gaza, for bombing civilians in gaza if they need to. that's pretty intense. >> all right. chuck todd, thank you very much. we'll be watching you on "the daily rundown" right after "morning joe." and ben smith, thank you as well. coca-cola doubles down on its pr push to get out in front of the issues surrounding obesity. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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if you try sometimes ♪ ♪ you might find you get what you need ♪ 39 past the hour. coca-cola will debut its second obesity ad on tv tonight.

this one telling consumers how to burn off the calories in a can of coke. let's take a look at it. critics are attacking the soda giant's new ad campaign saying the biggest contributor to obesity in this country is sugar-sweetened beverages. but a top executive at the company says soda is not to blame for america's weight problem. >> obesity is a real problem in this country. it's a growing problem. and indeed around the world. and too often the debate becomes very simplistic. don't drink soda and the obesity epidemic somehow will magically go away. we don't believe that's true. we don't believe that we've caused the epidemic, we know we haven't, but we want to be part of the solution. and we know through things we can do we can make a real difference. we need to make the debate a much more complex and holistic debate about calories in and calories out. >> coca-cola says the campaign is not about cutting out certain

foods but instead making healthy choices. one healthy choice you could make is not to drink coca-cola. >> we do live in a capitalistic society. >> yeah. >> it's no different than a beer company running an ad and say drink responsibly. >> right. >> it is a legal substance. they're not going to run ads saying don't use our product. >> right. >> so at least it's a baby step? the right direction. is there a hypocrisy to it? of course there is. you know, that's the best you're going to get from them. that's like asking a beer company to say we're going to tell you not to drink beer because if you drink too much of it, it's a bad thing. >> the things we're learning about food is sort of the value of food. it's not just calories. it's what kind of calories. whether you're eating really healthy food that have value, those calories go through you in a different way than just pure sugar, syrup that you drink and that rots your teeth before it even gets into your body. >> the solution is parents being on top of their children. >> that's so funny. i know you all think i'm crazy. >> no, i don't. i don't.

i do think that coca-cola is the greatest drink in the world, though. just don't drink it all day long. don't drink it all day long. >> and don't drink a tub of it, right? >> especially if you went within the cities. we've talked about this ad nauseam. and look at what kids eat before they get on the school bus or go to school. they're eating ring dings, chocolate. but they don't get breakfast, a lot of kids. >> i love ring dings. i get it. >> what's next? talk about a slippery slope. don't eat french fries anymore? >> the answer i'm going to keep coming back to you, i have a 25-year-old, 9-year-old and a 4-year-old. the 9 and 4-year-old don't get soda. they don't get juice. they get water. you can't ask coca-cola to stop selling coke. i give them a kudo. they're taking one step. >> education in schools. >> but is it okay to say when you hear the ceo saying it's important to make healthy choices, that i could then say politely and very civilly in return that a healthy choice would be to not drink coke? >> or a healthy choice, coke

makes a lot -- they make water produ products. they don't just make the syrupy soda. baby can. >> i'm a little sore over what's happened lately to our country. up next, what president obama's strategic vision on foreign policy is as he enters his second term. nbc news foreign correspondent ayman mohyeldin joins us next on "morning joe." [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up

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nightfall is the overnight air th attacks. you can see the destruction, the damage that the missile has caused. libya's trez said todpresident attack was not the result of protests over an anti-islam movie. >> i have no doubt about this. it's a pre-planned -- a pre-planned attack. >> well, that was just some of nbc news foreign correspondent ayman mohyeldin's reporting in the middle east. nice to have you on the set. >> nice to have somebody with a real job on the set. >> amazing work. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me on. >> we're looking ahead at the president's foreign policy. good to have robert gibbs here still with us. pick a hotspot. which area do you think will define through the decisions he will be forced to make, the president's doctrine ahead? >> maybe i'm a little biased because i cover the middle east, so i'd probably say that if you had to look across, you know, three major issues of economics,

security and democracy, they all really converge in the middle east as challenges for the obama administration. if you look maybe at asia, it's more economic-centered, if you look at new york, it's more economic-centered. in the middle east, you have all three challenges. and i think you're going to see a lot of challenges. they're common themes playing across different countries, all of them are going to require different tools, but really i think that's the region that's going to be a big challenge. >> right when you feel one hope in one area of the middle east, it diminishes when you look away and turn to another problem in the middle east. >> absolutely. i mean, i think the characteristic has been that it's two steps forward, one step back in that part of the world. every time you think a country like egypt has made progress, it takes a step back. other countries very similar. >> would i be mistaken if i felt that egypt was the pivot point with regard to what happens in the middle east over the next couple of years or even the next few months because of the uncertainty involved in egypt? >> not just the uncertainty but also the politics. egypt is by far the largest middle eastern country, close to

90 million country, but also because the politics spill across borders. the muslim brotherhood has given birth to other movements in jordan, libya, syria, tunisia. it is seen as the ideological epicenter of the political pan-islamic movement. where the muslim brotherhood in egypt goes will have implications for these other political islamist organizations. if they can make that transition into pluralistic democratic organization can lead egypt forward, you will see other organizations follow suit and follow that model. >> it somehow seems from reading reports and listening to reports that morsi, president morsi, is becoming even more isolated from his constituency, from people in egypt, than he was obviously when he was elected. >> well, he's definitely in a difficult position because in egypt, the muslim brotherhood ironically has become a moderate organization. you have now the ultra-conservative group trying to push him to the right and they're much more extreme. and you have the secular liberals leftist that have been disappointed that he hasn't been this magnanimous leader and come

out and tried to become a leader for all egyptians. they see him as a very politicized, very politicalized, dogmatic leader. i think he's being pulled in many different directions. i think that's where president obama is going to have a serious challenge, in trying to engage with egypt, at the same time, but not giving them carte blanche to run the agenda like they want to. and i think that really is going to be something to watch very closely, how the u.s. engages with them. >> you're going from country to country in this powder ekg region, and when we see you, we see you on the screen like this. what are you feeling from the people around you in all these countries, as an american journalist, when you walk around, do you feel hatred, do you feel warmth, do you feel indifference? i know that's a 10,000 foot question and it varies, but as you're living there and walking around, what do you feel from the people? >> i think it's a mix between optimism and frustration. i think in the last few years, we've seen a tremendous amount of optimism. when i travel to places like libya, egypt, even in places

where there's a lot of fighting in syria, people are optimistic about their future for the first time. the dynamic between the state and the citizen is changing in that part of the world. not necessarily for the better, so that is one thing. but there's also a sense of frustration sometimes at the international community, at countries like the united states, that have a stated interest in that part of the world, that they're not doing enough. maybe they're not doing things the way they should be doing them. it's a hybrid of those two feelings. >> final questions going to robert gibbs. >> look, i think -- and i would like you just to build off of this. but i think in so many of these places, these countries are struggling with the fact that an election doesn't create a democracy, right? there are many pillars in civil society that have to be created in these places that have never had them. and i think that's, as you said, it's the frustration of people inside that want to see change happen more quickly and there's frustration on the outside, where people say, well, how come this isn't happening more quickly. what's the biggest thing the united states can do to nudge

that path towards democracy? >> that's a really good question. i think what we can learn from the past is the united states should not pursue a policy of stability over democracy. i think when there's a clear choice between the principle of a democratic step forward or maybe a stable step forward, i think that most people in that region will tell you, it is okay to pursue the democratic step, even if it is in the short run appearing to be a little bit unstable. i think in the past, what we've seen, 30 years of pursuing a policy supporting a person who can serve u.s. interests but bring stability breeds very problematic issues in the long run. and as we're seeing now, completely, a lack of democratic culture in egypt, because for 30 years, the power was concentrated in the hands of one man supported by the u.s. but now here we are. >> ayman, thank you for your insight, and we look forward to more of your excellent reporting and for being on the show this morning. still ahead, hoda kotb joins us here on set. more "morning joe" in just a moment.

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looking ahead tomorrow, former senator jim demint and tom brokaw will join us. and next, as the president plans to unveil his plan to crack down on gun violence, the

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up, everyone, as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back on set with us here in new york, we have mike barnicle, donny deutsch, and melanie

barnes. joe, you were the one who raised this at the top of the show yesterday. and now they've changed the age on who can use the app, so they feel better about themselves. wow. you made a big difference, joe scarborough. >> whatever, mika brzezinski. you know, the thing is that i heard all day yesterday afternoon, there was pushback from people that were saying that this app was not affiliated with the nra and these were some of the same people who were trying to explain why they need assault weapons to protect their constitutional rights. their arguments are absolutely unbalanced. they really are. you look at the argument that assault weapons are protected. we hear this all the time, by the second amendment. we hear that these high-capacity magazines are protected by the second amendment. they're not!

it's right there in heller, scalia wrote it. and yet the nra has so programmed people that like buying a lot of these assault weapons to think, this is your constitutionally protected right. james madison gave you this right when he helped draft the bill of rights. it's sheer ignorance of basic constitutional law. it's ignorance of what justice scalia said. and that app, forget about whether 4-year-olds can play it or 8-year-olds can play it or 12-year-olds can play it -- >> exactly. >> -- i guess, mika, the question is, what organization puts out an app like that that any children can play one month after the most just indescribely horrific slaughter of young 6 and 7-year-olds? is that really how they mark the anniversary? has this organization become so out of touch, so insulated, so

extreme, so arrogant that they think that middle americans are going to put up with that? it's indescribable. >> and they want to press back against regulations and laws. and i don't want to create a nanny state as much as you all might disagree with that, but what kind of a society do we want to be? what kind of decisions are you going to make, companies, on your own, to help our society be better, healthier, and promoting of good business and of good people in this world. and if that sounds naive, well, then i'll just go back to work on regulations. because -- and policies. because nobody here is taking any responsibility for what some of these things may cause, directly or indirectly. i mean, to me, it is the question of who are we, really? >> right. it's about the broader environment that we're creating for ourselves and for our families. and this underlying culture of violence that leads to the kinds of tragedies that took place in

newtown, but also in columbine and aurora. and we can go through the list. we've almost become none to the ticker telling us that some other community is confronting this kind of tragedy. and i think we have a responsibility as individuals and as citizens to push back on this. if this isn't the kind of culture we want, we're going to have to say to companies, we're going to have to say to our policy makers, this isn't -- you're going to have to stop. >> joe, i'm talking about playing nice, but i don't think that's going to work. >> well, and, you know, the thing is, we have been focusing, of course, some on the gun lobby. >> right. >> but right after newtown, we were also talking about the responsibility of hollywood. >> right. >> and you want to talk about an industry that is completely blind to the, you know, to their responsibility to bringing violence to culture, who was one of the most celebrated men sunday night at the golden globes? quentin tarantino. >> yes, he was. >> a man who, first of all, i

think said some extraordinarily disrespectful things right after the killings of those young children up in newtown, but then was praised widely in polite society for producing an extraordinarily violent movie that is just one more extraordinarily violent movie that he puts out, aimed at teenage boys, and boys in their 20s, young men in their 20s. you know, the left will go to the barricades, defending hollywood's right to make our violent more coarse, more violent, more out of control. and the right, it seems, the extremes in the nra, will go to the wall, go to the barracks, barricades, to defend guns, that have no right in the hands of legal law-abiding citizen. >> before i get to the nra ad -- >> joe, really quickly on the hollywood thing. and look, my kids are not

playing violent video games and i don't go to movies like that personally. there is to me a huge difference between guns and -- >> well, of course, there is, donny, because you're a liberal. >> there's a difference. there's a very slippery slope between freedom of speech and art, because then kind of who sits judge and jury versus a very hard line in the sand, no assault weapons. no extra bullets in those magazines. guns kill. once again, let's do all the statistical comparisons, what goes on in other civilized countries and us. other civilized countries have violent films -- >> donny, donny, other civilized countries don't have 200 million guns in circulation. >> that's exactly my point. >> but, donny, they're going to stay in circulation. if you believe for one moment that that young man, who locked himself in a basement and played video games hour after hour after hour, watching, you know,

and simulating murder hour after hour after hour after hour didn't desensitize him, then i think you're sadly mistaken. and one other point and i'll toss it back to you, donny, but your argument about the, quote, slippery slope, couldn't have been said better by wayne la pierre, himself. this is such a feeble excuse -- >> i'm not talking about a slippery slope -- there's a big difference between a slippery slope and a hard right -- please don't compare me to that nut job, come on. >> i have to. because this is the argument, donny, that gun rights extremists that say, i must have these clips, or these magazines, i must have these assault weapons, have been saying for years. oh, if you take away my assault weapon, then i'm not going to be able to have a hunting rifle or a shotgun or a handgun. it is the same argument, whether your talking about the first amendment or the second amendment. the fact that people on the left

say we can't have as nuanced approach to curbing violence in hollywood as we can curbing gun violence. i think, donny, is a copout. >> joe, that means anytime on this show for the next ten years, we come up with any issue on first amendment rights, where we go, whoa, i hate that, but -- then you can bring it back to the nra argument? i think that's a little apples and oranges. but my point is interesting. they have done so many -- i hate those video games. let me say, personally, i hate those video games, but they have done scientific study after study, actually one of my ex-partners is the head guy at activision now and was in the meeting with joe biden, and scientist after scientist has shown, there is no correlation to the video games. and i think pointing in that direction is taking us away from the real problems, which is guns. it's not an either/or. >> first of all, who were the scientists? are they scientists at the video game industry paid for? because i'll tell you what, i

conducted my own scientific survey with two teenage boys watching them and watching all of their friends grow up. of course, it wasn't a scientific study, i saw it with my own eyes, and i'm telling you, kids, from the age these days of 8, 9, 10, to the time they're 20, 21, 22, simulate the murder of thousands and thousands of human beings on these video games. donny, just -- and i had this conversation with mike barnicle before on the air, i believe, just as pornography desensitizes young males to sexuality, these video games desensitize young males. and movies by people like quentin tarantino, that make shot up, punched up cadavers a punch line where the audience actually laugh, those work together to desensitize young american males. they just do.

>> joe, we'll move on. i hate both of those things. my point, as a guy who's trying to get things done, let's focus on the gun. you get the guns. >> but, just -- come on, now. people on the right say, let's just focus on hollywood. liberals say, let's just focus on the guns. it's not just one or the other. it is a -- and mika will tell you this, after newtown, i turned to her, i'll say it again, i saw the ticker in times square that talked about a shooting in connecticut and i turned to mika and i said, this is a kid who's isolated, he's got mental health problems, i told her what kind of mental health problems the kid had, and he's been locked in his room playing violent video games for the past several years and has no human contact. i knew that, donny, ten hours before all of those facts became public. so don't tell me there's not a correlation, when can i predict ten hours ahead of time,

exactly -- maybe it's profiling. >> would he have killed those kids if the video games didn't exist? i know there's no definitive answer. we'll never know that. but i do know if they didn't have the assault weapons, there would be more kids alive today. >> let me answer your question with an answer, and we'll move on to the nra ad. would you show these violent movies or video games to a 4-year-old? >> no. >> why do you say that? because their minds are too undeveloped, right? think of the mind of a kid with any type of mental health issues or developmental issues. their minds aren't developed. >> or that's being bullied at school. >> or their minds are limited in some capacity or isolated in some capacity. and therefore, i don't care what scientific study the entertainment industry wants to put out there, that's a load of crap. it just is. >> i hate those games let's go

for the guns. >> they're not for people who are not healthy. >> we've got to move on. they're screaming at me. >> i'm sorry. >> mika, joe mentioned the issue of pornography, pornographic videos. let's get to the ad. >> okay. because this is pornography. >> the nra has released a new ad that brings the president's daughters into the debate over guns in america. >> are the president's kids more important than yours? then why is he skeptical about putting armed security in our schools when his kids are protected by armed guards at their school. mr. obama demands the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes, but he's just another elitist hypocrite when it comes to a fair share of security. protection for their kids and gun free zones for ours. >> that's a real ad.

>> yeah. >> that, my friends, is political pornography. that's one of the grossest things i've ever seen in my life. >> i don't even know what to say. >> what's wrong with these people, mika? what's wrong with these people? you have children that have no say in the decision on whether their father, who's going to step forward to be president of the united states, to run for president, one of the most bone-crushing, sacrificing things any husband or wife can do to their family, and the second they make that decision, their children and their entire family have targets on their backs. >> yeah. >> and the nra is putting something out like -- what's wrong with these people? putting out apps that 4-year-olds can play on the anniversary of the newtown murders, and now putting out an ad talking about the president's daughters?

>> they are out of step, out of the mainstream, totally out of sync with what's going on in our society, and quite frankly, after seeing that, i think some of the people who run that thing are sick. i really do. i think they are sick in the head. and i'm serious. i'm embarrassed right now. i'm embarrassed for our country, that we have a section of society, the nra, which should have a voice, certainly, trying to protect a constitutional amendment. i understand that. and there's a really legitimate debate there. they just took it, they just brought it down to the lowest, most base level. i don't even want to -- i don't even -- it's -- it's now fringe. >> they need new leadership, is what they need. >> whatever. >> their leadership has dragged them over the cliff. they are now a fringe organization with millions of mainstream americans, gun, you know, hunting -- guys and women that love to hunt --

>> you should be embarrassed to be a part of the nra at this point. >> to protect their families. and once the nra once was, it no longer is. this extremism is so frightening. and just over the line. >> well, i think this helps us understand why we are where we are right now, with regard to policies in our country. because this is the kind of ad that we can anticipate for the next several months, as the president announces the kinds of policies that he's going to announce today, which i think will be holistic. not just addressing guns, but a whole range of issues. but because of this kind of ad, because someone would go to this level, people are scared to take on this issue as a policy matter. >> coming up, the biggest challenges the obama administration will face as it enters its second term. "the new york times'" peter baker and joe conason join us. and next, the "today" show's hoda kotb is here to discuss her

new book about persevering in the face of adversity. but first, here's bill karins with a check of the forecast. bill? >> mika, we've already had our problems all through new england, school cancellations, school delays, and now the storm is exiting. the timing of the storm was just the worst, right when the kids are supposed to be heading to school. here's the radar, the white on the map, the snow, has ended in most portions of connecticut. bottom, give it an hour or two. we have a little bit of snow just north of albany, new york. but mostly areas from new york city northwards received upwards of 2 to 3 inches. airports are amazingly doing just fine. the new york city airports had sleet earlier, now back to a little bit of light rain. so they can deal with that. as far as the forecast goes, temperatures will be above freezing this afternoon. so the roads will get better as the day goes on, even up into areas of new england. probably the worst road conditions north of boston, new hampshire, southern vermont, and up into coastal areas of maine. so the southeast, you still have another storm to deal with. lots of rain as we go throughout the next 24 hours.

maybe even some flooding problems, northern alabama, georgia, and also tennessee. the other thing we have to watch, we're not that far away now from monday's inauguration forecast. what we're going to be watching there is a big shot of cold air coming down through the great lakes come sunday into monday. just a little piece of this heads for d.c. it so looks chilly on monday, but no big storms. that will be good for washington, d.c. right now i'm calling for an inauguration forecast for a high of about 35, windchills in the 20s. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.

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20 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." here with us now, co-anchor of the fourth hour of "today," hoda kotb. >> that's a legitimate job, i want to point out. >> it is the most legitimate job in television, except for this month. dry this month. >> the worst month ever. >> she's the author of the new book, "ten years later: six people who faced adversity and transformed their lives." i love the concept. where'd you get the idea for it? is it personal? >> i think we've all been in a situation where you've sort of felt like you're stuck in the weeds and you don't know how you'd survive ten minutes, let alone ten years. so we went hunting for people who had a really big cross to bear and we were trying to figure out how they ever got out of the fetal position and advanced their life ten years. and these are all stories that are uplifting. because we've all been on the front end, you get the bad phone

call, your boss tells you something terrible, and you think, how am i ever going to make it out? and i felt like a lot of people were in a funk, that's what we were feeling like over the last year, especially at the end of 2012, with the hurricane, and the shooting, and just life. so we thought, why not do something that would pull people up. and i think these six people do the trick. >> tell us about some of them, when you look and choose. because everyone faces adversity. how do you make a -- how do you make a decision as to who to pick? >> well, one surprised me. they all surprised me, but one in particular. there's a woman named roxane quimby. she lost three waitressing jobs, had three kids, she was out of luck. she was driving down a street and sees a man on the side of the road with a lawn chair and a scruff y beard and a jar and sh said, what's that, and he said, i'm selling honey.

she packages it for him. she looks up and sees his sign that's called burt's bees. she sells this company. so hers was a chance meeting. >> i wear that skin cream. >> you wear skin cream? >> for my hands. >> he does need it. >> what's the thread with all these people. obviously, they're very different stories. one net takeaway, because people do go through losing jobs, losing loved ones, these horrible adversities. >> you know what's funny, when you want to get through something, these people didn't do it for themselves. because it's hard to do something, because you had the guts and stuff. every single person in this book got over their hardship for something bigger than them, their kids, their parents, they fought through. >> tell me about ron clifford. >> ron clifford i love. i met him 9/11, and that's how i found some of the stories, just

from work that i'd done before. and he was there 9/11, his sister and niece were in planes that hit the world trade and he was on the ground, not knowing that. so imagine just what he went through, and your journey back, and we've seen a lot of 9/11 stories and how people fared ten years later. ron clifford was one of my favorites, because i loved him so much, and when i first interviewed him, the very first day after the world trade center, he looked at me and he said, what is your name, and i said, my name is hoda, and he said, what kind of a name is that, and i said, my parents are from egypt, and i kind of felt my heart pounding, and i felt, i might be the closest thing to what he's mad up. and he said, stand up. and i stood up, and he hugged me. he was able to come out the other side. >> what does he do? >> he works, i think the problem with him, as an engineer, he was

so lost. he said every time he heard a sound, he jumped. he couldn't sleep, he couldn't do anything. and he went through a lot of therapy. and again, because of his wife and daughter, he had to find his way out. we do things because we have to, not because we want to. and this guy found a way through a lot of therapy and through a lot of love from his family that helped him through. but i think, no matter what you're going through in your life, whatever you're going through, i think is probably not as difficult as these six people. and i think you'll think, if i can make it through -- they can make it through that, i can make it through that. >> that actually sounds like hoda's story, right? >> i think so. i mean, i feel like these people are such rock stars compared to what happened to me. and i went through breast cancer and a divorce simultaneously five years ago, and i think when you have -- sometimes when you have two scary things happening, you split your grief. you don't have time to fall down the mountain on one, because you've got to worry about the other, and you weirdly, somehow, it might be a little easier to get through. but i have to tell you, i'm so

inspired by these people. what i went through in my life i feel like is nothing compared to what these people went through. >> the other day, i was fortunately blessed to meet this wonderful little boy angelo from the make-a-wish foundation, 14, fighting cancer, his entire family, and they are so heroic, and you just go, my problems -- >> are nothing. >> so looking outward instead of inward, obviously the best elix elixir. the other thing i wanted to ask, is there a moment with all these people, we see in arcs of movies, of great human triumphs, there's usually a moment of clarity, a moment where you dig within. for most of these people, was there ma moment? >> there was an aha moment for almost a every one of them. there was a woman who was incredibly overweight and abused and she couldn't find a way out. she had a moment where she saw her kids and thought, oh, my gosh, my husband's either going to kill me or i'm going to die and i'm going to be left alone. sometimes it takes, you're totally at the worst possible moment of your life. and for most of them, they had

to hit rock, rock bottom before they turned the beat around peach one has their own. there's not really a universal a aha, but there is something uniq unique. a person told me this story and i never forgot it. it's for when you do things better than yourself. a little girl ended up having a horrible accident and lost the use of her legs and she was very upset and she was in a hospital room alone and the doctor said, put her in with the other kids, and her parents said, no, leave our daughter alone, she's upset, they ultimately put her in the room with the other kids, and the kid next to her said, can you help me? you push the button and call the nurse. and the little girl said, how am i supposed to help you, i lost the use of my legs. and the little boy said, i lost the use of my arms and legs. that little girl hopped up in that wheelchair and pushed that button. that kid grew up to be an attorney who's fighting for people with disabilities. so when you're doing for someone bigger than yourself, someone

who's hurting more than you, that's kind of the theme of the book. you have to take the focus off yourself and put it on someone else and it lightens the load. >> this is really a beautiful concept. thank you so much. >> thank you, mika. thanks for having me. thanks, boys. >> can i do the 30-second commercial? >> you can. >> if you are dealing with any type of adversity right now, small, medium, or big, this will help you get through it. >> can i be in volume ii for sitting next to you. >> i'm still trying to get over hand cream. mike barnicle, hand cream. >> i feel the most sorry for mika. >> donny and barnicle in one day. >> that's scary. >> the book is "ten years later: six people who faced adversity and transformed their lives". hoda kotb, thank you so much. >> thank you, guys. thank you. >> we love you. best human being in the world, hoda kotb. >> thank you, guys. >> known her for a long time. we're old. >> we are old. not as old as barnicle, but -- >> that's true! >> coming up next, a look at the

second-term challenges for the obama administration. "the new york times" peter baker and joe conason join the conversation. you're watch rg "morning joe." ♪ [ construction sounds ] ♪ [ watch ticking ] [ engine revs ] come in. ♪ got the coffee. that was fast. we're outta here. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪

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washington, d.c. no snow there yet. i guess not going to happen

there. with us from washington, the correspondent from "the new york times" and contributing writer for "the new york times" magazine, peter baker. also joining us here on set, the author of nationalmemo.com, joe conason. this week's "new york times" magazine faces the changing face of the obama administration, four years after it first took office. at the time of the first inaugural, "new york times" magazine published 52 portraits of the president's top aides and advisers. i can remember reading it, looking at it. now peter is writing roughly half of the people in the photo essay are gone. some embittered by realities they did not anticipate or cast aside by a president cutting losses. the gauzy hope of 2009 has faded into the stacker realism of 2013. a washington they promised to transform is as divided as ever. peter, you know, i haven't seen the sunday times magazine, obviously, yet, but i can recall at issue, and we all recall what's encountered, what the

country has encountered over the last four years. my question to you is, some of the people seem to be embittered, some of the people seem resentful of what didn't happen. are they unrealistic about what the country endured, what happened four years ago? i mean, what happened within the first three or four months of the obama administration? >> well, i think it's a group that collectively has a lot more scar tissue today. that's the way cecelse sealo ce munos put it. to see where they are four years later, most of them are still pretty positive, obviously, about the president. most of them feel good about the things that they've accomplished, but they also feel, you know, they've got tougher skin, they've been through a lot. in some cases, they're probably a little angrier about the way washington has worked and the

way they've been treated. but it's been an eventful four years, to say the least, and the next four will probably be the same. >> wouldn't it be fair to say if we did 50 portraits of every first-term president, half would be gone four years later and it's pretty much business as usual? >> yeah, i don't think we're pretending this is somehow unique. i think this is the national course of attrition in any administration, particularly in one that's been as high, you know, in intensity and burnout as this one. i think a lot of the early bush team stayed a little longer than four years. some people thought maybe to their detriment at times. but it's a job to work in that white house that just burns through people. you're working 14-hour days, crisis after crisis. nobody anticipated deepwater horizon, the oil spill, nobody anticipated the arab spring, and it kept coming after them, one after another. >> and the level of ewe euphoria

four years ago, the level of expectation -- >> it was never realistic. but i wonder if the people that remained feel that they misjudged the opposition when they came in. that they felt that there could be a major change in the post partisan atmosphere and they found out that that just wasn't true. i assume, you know -- >> i think some of them would say they were overly optimistic, suddenly washington who was in that corrosive atmosphere for quite a number of years, suddenly that was going to turn around, because, you know, their president happened to be the one that they found to be, you know, so reasonable and accommodating. it's a town right now that kind of chews people up. and i think they've accommodated themselves to that reality four years later. they no longer look at it as they did during that heady moment, with 1.8 million people on the mall, anticipating a new

era. >> joe, what strikes me about what happened four years ago and the atmosphere within the white house is that in 2000, i mean, there was an atmosphere around incoming president george w. bush, by some democrats, that this is not a legitimate presidency. you know, we're going to fight him every inch of the way. and that same thing came through f for eight years and it continued. it's no surprise -- >> it's not a surprise that it preceded bush with clinton. he was impeached. yesterday we had the first member of congress to stand up and utter a threat of impeachment against president obama. steve stockman, republican of texas, over the gun issue, said, i will file an impeachment resolution against him. so it really is much the same. there's an oppositional, almost insurgent republican party and democrats who have been sometimes naive about what the opposition really feels, what they're really ready to do, especially the sort of core, hard-core wing of the republican

party. >> hey, peter, robert gibbs was just on with us, and it's something you just mentioned. the level of exhaustion within the white house, of the people re-interviewed, that you went back to this year, four years later, how many of them mentioned the exhaustion factors as a component part of what happens to them? >> oh, sure, all of them, basically, i think, suffered it from some way or another. melody barnes, you just had on your program, talked about sleeping with her blackberry and waking up with a start at 3:00 in the morning, suddenly, you know, trying to think about something she hadn't done or worrying about some crisis that was going to happen. cecelia munos talked about losing fife pounds during the months of the oil spill. this takes a real toll on people emotionally and physically. this one has seen a great number of crisis that they were asked to deal with from day one. there was no honeymoon to start. and i don't think it's going to be a honeymoon here in the

second term. >> joe, the one portrait that's not going to change over the eight years is the one employee is our president. when he came to work four years ago, when he would walk into the office in the morning, his tone, his demeanor, his stature versus now four years later, lessons learned, all that we know happens, how does that guy look walking into the office different? >> his hair is greyer, for one thing, like the rest of us. and i think he's a more realistic guy. i mean, i think he has come to realize, he's not going to change washington. washington has changed him. and he's going to proceed up against an opposition that really wants to thwart him in every way. he's better off, because he was re-elected, so he has that behind him, and he was re-elected in a way that i think was a big confirmation of his previous four years. but he still has to cope with an opposition that has power. >> hey, peter, before we let you go, did you get a chance to talk with the greatest vice president in the history of vice

presidents? >> joe biden did sit down with us. it was very interesting, he's -- look, he's a good story teller. he's great for an oral history like this. he told a number of stories, some we'd heard, some we hadn't. he said during a previous fight with the republicans over spending, for instance, he had urged president obama to actually let the republicans take us over a cliff, not a debt ceiling, but a spending one, where the government would shut down. he thought that that would pin them with responsibility. the president didn't want to do that. so they ended up coming up with a deal. you get some sense from these interviews about the tough decisions and the factors that go into the decision making that has taken place over the last four years. >> peter baker, thanks very much, for coming on. we appreciate it. your piece is in this sunday's "new york times'" magazine. joe conason, stick around. that's your punishment, you have to stay here with donny and i. more trouble in the skies for boeing's dream larlinerdreamlin. business before the bell with cnbc's brian shactman.

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we're more than 78,000 people looking out for more than 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. how you feeling? >> egg rols. i wish i had a breeze down my leg. i'd kill for a cookie. i want it now! i want cake now! i want it now! >> i found fido! hey, i found fido! i found fido, you guys! >> stank! ham bowl? >> i would love to get you a mai tai. come on, i'll make it myself. >> um. >> what's wrong with him? >> i dare you to spit in that

guy's drink. >> i went out with a girl this weekend. we just kept having a ball. then i come over to hang out after the game and the floor's just beanbags. so that's when i'm a jerk to her, because i'm like, can you pick up all your floor bags? you ain't living in southeast asia. >> the vet said, dude, he said, your cat's just pregnant. i said, okay, so i won't go and kick her. >> singer time! >> that was the nfl coaches and players, courtesy of the folks at badlipreading.com. try again, folks. >> it's just not funny. i'm sorry. >> you know who is funny? brian shactman. >> brian shactman is beyond funny. brian shactman is hilarious. if you ever saw him at the tiki room on route 22, opening up for louis anderson. >> i've got about 30 seconds of material, guys, a bunch of conservative not-funny business news. maybe i'll flip the switch. you want to hear something funny about facebook?

i was going to do this last. they have this graph search, which is a horrible name. some people think that they've jumped the shark, if you will, for the younger set. i talked to a media guy who deals with a lot of this stuff. facebook is the living room for young people. they go in there, they see people, they don't really reveal too much, fine. instagram is the basement. kind of cool, friends use it, and i don't know if you know snap chat, but snap chat is the bedroom, to continue the metaphor, for young people. that's where you can type tough and text stuff and send stuff and it just disappears in the ether, and i think there's no trace, but there is. i don't know if you've heard about it, but your kids are probably using it. >> brian, what is linkedin? the trunk of your car? >> probably. and it's taking out the trash, because your kids don't ever want to do it. a quick couple of things on the market. wear down. inflation numbers, no big deal. bank earrings, goldman sachs,

metaphorically, hit it out of the park. investment banking up 68% year over year. jpmorgan, not quite as good. jamie dimon only made $11.5 million down from $23 million the year before. the london whale trade lost $6 billion. you have boeing, al pon airways and japan airways grounding the 787 after an emergency landing. that stock down 3.5%, a huge drag on the dow. they talk about growing pains for a new plane. this is getting a little bit out of hand for them. if they start losing orders, this company's projected earrings are going to go down the tube. >> let's talk about terry fran conn's stock, marketing consultant who is advised the team allegedly during the 2010 season wanted to make winning a little bit more sexier. he describes meetings where the owners are supposed to have said, we need a sexier team, go out and sign people. no one forced the red sox to sign carl crawford, but your thoughts, please, brian?

>> i think no matter what happens, the end was ugly there. i think no matter what he said, he lost the clubhouse. i know a lot of people who work for the red sox, they want to lack good, but they want to win more than look good. they wouldn't spend that kind of money. no matter what they're making on the tv side. if they spend $250 million on salaries, it's not worth it on the tv side, what they might get. and adrian gonzalez is not that sexy. >> before we go, can you tell us more about the goldman sachs trade, the priest and the rabbi that walk into the bar? that's what you opened with the other night and the place just went crazy. >> yeah -- >> i'm not even funny to my kids when they're in the bathtub, guys. i'm sorry. >> all right, brian, thanks a lot. we appreciate it. looking ahead to tomorrow, former senator jim demint and tom brokaw will join us. but up next, the best of late night. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work.

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pros and cons of getting the flu shot. here we go. pro, the vaccine contains the most effective ingredient known to prevent the flu. con, the flu. pro, it's the most important shot you can get. con, unless you want to win the tour de france. live strong, you guys. pro, the vaccine contains eggs, mercury, and dead viruses. con, so does a denny's grand slam breakfast. pro, you can now get a flu shot at walmart! con, because if there's anything you want to get a dormant virus injected into your bloodstream, it's the place where you can buy jeans and milk for the same price. that sounds about right. >> on monday, lance armstrong admitted doping while he was winning the tour de france seven times. >> what? i believed in you, lance

armstrong! i shelled out a dollar for a rubber bracelet that i have somewhere in my house for you. i did it for you! and when i think of the fact that i spent a dollar -- well, i think we all owe cancer an pog. >> people flip out when they think that their guns might be taken away. and some lobbyists will try to whip them into a frenzy with ads like this one. >> why does president obama want to take everybody's guns away? >> everybody's guns are going to be taken away. >> that's right. the federal government is about to take your guns away. >> the federal government's about to take all your guns away. >> whose guns? >> everybody's gun. >> how many guns? >> all your guns. >> call the white house right now, because if you don't -- >> here it comes. >> here it comes.

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